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Letter: Representing Evening Students

USG Lower Evening Senators

Published: Saturday, April 17, 2010

Updated: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 18:04

So much for equitable representation and transparency! We first heard about the proposed referendum to the Undergraduate Student Government Constitution four days before the USG elections.

The proposal replaced the current representative structure from 12 day senators and four evening senators (based on a ratio of one senator for every 1,000 students from each distinction) to 16 senators without any enrollment distinctions.


Evening students often face unique constraints and situations demanding that they attend night or weekend classes. They pay their full student activity fee and have little or no opportunity to engage in the activities those fees pay for. Even when events and services are held during the evening hours while students are on campus, they are usually unable to attend because they're in class.

All the same, their voice needs to be equally represented in USG. With only four days to the election, including Saturday and Sunday when the campus is generally empty, there was little opportunity to mount a respectable counter campaign.


As evening students and USG senators newly elected to fill vacant seats, you can imagine the alarm this drastic change raised. We've heard a lot about the other proposed referendum, the increase in the student activity fee, and were fully prepared to take a supportive position; but we were completely unfamiliar with the constitutional amendments.


We are incredibly proud to be serving with such a dedicated group of student-centered advocates for the rest of the term, but in this instance, we believe USG has let down the over 3,000 evening students of Baruch. This is a shameful attempt to hinder the inclusion of a significant portion of the Baruch community.


Where was the public debate on the measure? Springing up measures like this suggests a deliberate attempt to confound voters. It seems very undemocratic.


While the proposed configuration will technically allow any student, day or evening, to run for USG, it is most likely that day students will dominate for years to come. Day students are more likely to have the time to foster the relationships necessary to align themselves with political parties and run for election.


We understand that evening students have certain responsibilities and constraints that typically make them less likely to offer the commitment USG requires. USG probably suggested these changes after experiencing a lengthy search to fill vacant evening seats.


Still, the inclusion of evening senators forces USG to consider evening students in all of their deliberations, no matter the outcome of the electoral process.

-Colin Rosenbaum and Jorge Ruiz
USG Lower Evening Senators

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9 comments

USG Senator
Fri Apr 30 2010 11:34
As a fellow senator in USG, I agree with Jorge and the message he is conveying. However, there are good arguments for both sides. Yes, Jorge, evening students should be represented equally whether or not they are present; they are still paying a student acitivity and the same amount as day students. The other side of the argument would be the level of productivity of our student government. I am not saying or implying that evening students are not hard-working, but due to their busy lifestyles they cannot contribute enough time into being a senator. Most evening students work during the day and attend classes at night with little time in between. Also, finding an evening student that has the time to be involved is a rarity. In no offense to Jorge, but there were 3 evening senator spots available (3 evening students required in student government might I add) and there was no compeition into the achieving the position. I'd like the student government to be as productive as possible but to keep in mind the evening students that attend the college and to find means to delivering something they'd like.
Baruch College undergrad
Tue Apr 27 2010 05:33
As an evening student, I just want to have some way where I can go communicate to Baruch College about my opinion and my complaints, and I don't care if I do this through USG, directly to a Baruch College staff member who has power, or via some representative.

I am not sure if your argument is really for your constituent, or it is more of an apologetic defense of justifying a reason of your political existence.

If this is about internal politics between you senator and the rest of the USG, then I don't want to meddle in it. After all, I am not sure I am being represented, whether it is by you, an individual senator, or the entire USG.

Frankly, the only times I have been passionately and enthusiastically reached out and concerned by USG is during the annual election season. So thank you for caring, even though it was short and intense.

Yours truly,

Joe Working Class (aka Joe the CIS major)

Jorge Ruiz, USG Evening Senator
Sun Apr 25 2010 00:31
It is too bad these statements and opinions appear anonymously; it's much more effectively communicating with individuals who are willing to publicly stand behind their statements.

It's not about missing a flight, missing a class, crying over "spilled milk", or getting what I want. By no means did I, or would I ever suggest, that "the entire school" wait for evening students to engage in student activities.

There was absolutely no animosity towards day students expressed, or intended. And most honestly I am disappointed at the tone of this conversation. Evening students fully support their colleagues experience with their daytime student activities, all that is asked is to remember to consider the social need of, and offer the occasional outreach to, evening students as well.

My point had been, and continues to be, that evening students deserve a guaranteed voice in the USG because of their unique exposure to the college, and the realization that many pay a full student activity fee (there is a large contingent of full time evening students who pay a full activity fee) with little to no opportunity to take advantage of the benefits.

Despite the time constraints that restrict participation, evening students are more than happy to pay their activity fee, like every other Baruch student. Still they hope their money will be spent fairly and the only equitable way to ensure this is to ensure the fair representation of the community.

Baruch College undergrad
Sat Apr 24 2010 17:53
It's simple economics.

Making a choice to attend college for an education is an opportunity cost.
Making the choice to attend college in the evening is an opportunity cost.

There is a song by The Rolling Stones, it's called "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

In life, not everyone begin their race at the same time, and not everyone finish their race at the same time. Even if you implement Socialism and Communism into the world's economic system, it is still impossible to achieve the equality that you want.

You can't always get what you want. It is up to you to adjust, make choices, and create opportunity for yourself in the Game of Life.

Baruch College undergrad
Sat Apr 24 2010 17:35
Life is not fair? Ask the school for a refund. At least in the United States of America, you have the right to make choices. There is other school where the world is much more fair.

I also paid for activity fee, I also didn't use it. I didn't complain. It's your choice not to use it. It's your choice to take evening classes. It's your choice to attend Baruch College.

Hello? Remote learning, online college, boarding school, day school? There are other options out there and you choose to complain about the sunk cost and crying over spoiled milk?

If you go to a college that has boarding, even if you don't live in the dormitory, there will be student activity schedule on campus because there are a number of student live on campus.

So there, you have a choice. By the way, you didn't subsidize me. How much would you have paid for student activity fee even if you attend Baruch College as a full-time? What you paid as an individual is not even a drop in a bucket.

If you are angry, go attend a Tea Party protest. You are not entitle to anything, and the world did not owe you anything. You are attending an inexpensive public higher education institution such as CUNY Baruch College, what more do you want, a free ride?

Anonymous
Sat Apr 24 2010 16:06
@Baruch College Undergrad,

No problem. I refuse to subsidize your spoiled a** though, so start refunding 4 years worth of activity fees that I paid for and didn't use.

Baruch College undergrad
Sat Apr 24 2010 01:43
Too bad if you missed the morning flight. Should the plane stays for you, a lot of people would have stranded in the airport.

Most things and student activities happen during the day, why should the entire school waits for you until the evening.

Ever notice the stock security exchange market ring the Closing Bell?

Jorge Ruiz, USG Evening Senator
Wed Apr 21 2010 01:08
I appreciate the correction on the debate and consideration undertaken in approving the referendum. I must say, if Sal says something occurred then I know it did; but still I wonder how I overlooked that Ticker coverage as I read it every week.
Sal Chiarelli, USG Secretary
Mon Apr 19 2010 23:11
I want to make two things clear:
1. This information was made public last semester, with 1,000 undergraduates signing the petition to put the referendum on the ballot. I also recall that the Ticker covered the changes made to the USG constitution.
2. When this was approved in the USG senate, there was a vigorous debate and all four evening senators approved the constitution change.






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